In the previous chapter, I went against the trend of many recent commentators who take the conclusion of the Meno to be largely ironic. In doing so, I concentrated solely on the evidence internal to the text. This, however, is to overlook what many of these commentators would see as crucial evidence: the trenchant critique of Athenian politicians in the Gorgias. If, as these sceptics assume, the Gorgias predates the Meno can we not assume that Plato's earlier views are in the background when he has Socrates revisit the question of what the Athenian politicians did for their city?

I wish to continue to go against this trend and argue for a different way of relating the two dialogues. I shall begin by rehearsing the essentials of the political critique of the Gorgias and then argue that, by comparison with the Meno, it operates at a greater level of sophistication where the analysis of political virtue is concerned. It is more likely that the Meno represents an earlier point in Plato's career as a political commentator. To support this claim, I shall attempt to undermine the reasons usually given for dating the Meno after the Gorgias. The upshot will be that there is no longer any reason at all to read the Meno in the shadow of the Gorgias; and any external evidence for finding the Meno's conclusion ironic fades away altogether.