A simple spectral model is used to examine what is required to determine the energy and integral scale in homogeneous isotropic turbulence. The problem is that these are determined in part by the largest scales of the turbulence which are either not simulated at all by DNS or experiments, or cannot be estimated because of an insufficient statistical sample. The absence of scales an order of magnitude below the peak in the energy spectrum is shown to affect the determination significantly. Since this energy peak shifts to lower wavenumbers as the flow evolves, the problem becomes progressively worse during decay. It is suggested that almost all reported integral scales for isotropic decaying turbulence are questionable, and that the power laws fitted to them are seriously in error. Approximate correction using the spectral model shows that recent DNS data which decay as u2 ∝ tn with constant n, are also consistent with L ∝ t1/2.