We discuss evolutionary processes in binaries where the primary becomes a red giant with a deep convective envelope before it fills its Roche lobe. Such binaries (late Case B or late Case C, if they evolve conservatively) ought to suffer drastic mass transfer, on a hydrodynamic timescale. In some circumstances this may lead to a common envelope, spiral-in, and finally either a very short-period binary or coalescence. But there appear to be other circumstances in which the outcome is an ordinary Algol, or a wide binary with a white dwarf companion as in Barium stars and some symbiotics. We try to demonstrate that stellar-wind mass loss, enhanced one or two orders of magnitude by tidal interaction with a companion, can vitally affect the approach to RLOF, and indeed may prevent RLOF in binaries with periods over 1000 d. Such mass loss is probably accompanied by angular momentum loss, by magnetic braking combined with tidal friction. The result is that it will not be easy to predict definitively the outcome of evolution in a given zero-age binary.